Saturday, October 15, 2005


Beat the gongs and ring the bells! Yesterday we were honored with a visitor from The Land Down Under! agrophobic from Australia said:

“Interesting … religious politics for a country that was founded by people fleeing religious persecution.”
Could agrophobic be suggesting, here, that the Radical Goddess might persecute god worshippers? If that’s the case, he’s sooooo wrong. We’re not trying to persecute god worshippers -- we’re trying to stamp them out! We want to wipe every last one of those deadly little rugrats off this planet by the year 2025! But we don’t believe in persecuting anyone, not even murderers and maimers, only in rehabilitating them. (I suspect that, in all of human history, the god boogeypeople have produced more death and destruction than all other forces combined).

The high-god “religions” aren’t religions.* They’re poisonous political-control mechanisms. Hell is the hammer wielded to terrify people into submission. Beds and straps are also used: strapped onto beds, women become baby-making machines (or, rather, soldier-production devices). God-people breed like flies, and consequently overload the planet with their offspring (I’m one, and unless you, agrophobic, are an Aborigine, you probably are, too).

The first cities shot up when oodles of god-people huddled together in defense against other god-people. Next came the nation states. It’s all artificial. And deadly. It’s Jehovah, Jahweh, Vishnu, Mohammed, and Buddha, oozing like cancer all over the globe. And those god women strapped to the beds are just pumping and pumping out those babies, and the planet and its precious, protective ozone layer is groaning under the weight of all that god-baby bio-mass.

Here’s the difference between me and the Church that sent my 17th-century ancestors flying to America:

The Church said (to my god-worshipping ancestors), “Based on pure, unadulterated faith, we know YOUR brand of god worship is no good and grungy.” In contrast, I’m saying (to all god people), “Based on rational evidence, your religion has killed more people than anything else on the planet, bar none.”

The Church said “Based on no observable, rational evidence whatsoever, we demand that you ditch your dim-witted religion.” In contrast, I’m saying “Observable, rational, and measurable evidence shows that god worship kills, maims and destroys; god, therefore, must be outlawed.”


Bazz said...

"god, therefore, must be outlawed"

I think you may find enforcement to be a bit of a difficulty with this one...

Grian said...

I'm sure I will get beaten up for the remarks I am about to make, but here I go walking onto the firing range anyway...

I agree that the world would be better off if everyone believed in the Goddess, I'm just not sure your "radical" way is the right way. When I read your words at times I am reminded of Hitler. I understand you are not proposing a holocaust on god people - only “gentle rehabilitation”, but your feelings towards god people seem similar to the way Hitler felt towards the Jews – wipe them out, albeit gently, and the world will be a better place.

"Where are ze god people? Are you hiding zem in za house? Zay must be reahabilitated now before zay breed!"

I’m sure you’re thinking I’m off my nut at this point, but the way you point the finger at god worshippers is the same way Hitler blamed the Jews for the downfall of German society.

Other times I am reminded of an evangelical Christian preaching to the world about helping heathens find Jesus. Will you be the first of a sect of fundamentalist Goddess worshippers who sweep across the world loaded up with historical evidence and modern statistics to prove that Goddess is the Way and the Light? I’m pretty sure this kind of stuff is on the list of reasons why most modern Pagans turned away from Christianity in the first place.

I’d be interested in hearing about your particular brand of Goddess worship. What does your religion consist of? Is there a specific Goddess you focus on? A specific tradition?

Hopefully, you won’t take too much offense – even though I sort of called you a Hitler. Maybe you can see some of the humor in it, though I don’t expect you to sit there and take that comparison with a smile. I also hope that you can respect my opinions as I respect yours – even though we disagree. I’m looking forward to the quality conversations this could lead to.

Sincerely In Her Service,

Starbuck said...

Are you devoted to your Goddess? If you are why don't you understand that many people feel the same about their Gods and Goddesses. That plenty of them would not abandon them even under the most dire circumstances.

I would also like to know about your religion. It's one thing I've noticed missing from your blog. How can you expect people to convert to your religion, when all they know is that it consists of a Goddess.

Morgaine said...

She's not trying to convert anyone. She's educating. She's a little extreme, but some people need to be extreme to drive a point home. There is a belief that all gods are goddesses and all goddesses are one Goddess. It doesn't matter which name or archetype you choose to practice thealogy. All have value, all are valid.

The point she is making is that patriarchal, monotheist religions are quite literally deadly. She's asking you to step outside your cultural indoctrination and imagine a world where sex is good and war is evil; where women control their own bodies and own lives; where we don't kill each other over the words in moldy old scrolls.

And sorry, but that's very rude to come into someone else's house and call her Hitler. She's trying to get us away from autocracy and hate into a world of love and cooperation. Open your mind a little, and read more of the blog. There's more here than this post.

Grian said...

Morgaine, I have read more of the blog and there are some things that I agree with. I don't need to step outside my cultural indoctrination. I did that years ago. I understand the points she is trying to make, I just don't think people will respond to her ideas in the way they are presented here. I mean, I’m a devotee of the Goddess and I thought “Wow, we’ve got a Pagan fundie here.” Extreme fundamentalism is never a good thing. That’s how the wars start.

Sex is good, war is bad. That's easy. Yes, wars have been fought over male gods, but they have been fought over other things as well. As I stated in my first comment, I agree that the world would be more peaceful if everyone came to the Goddess, but proselytizing and forced rehabilitation is not the Great Mother's way.

As for the Hitler comment; maybe it was rude, but I stand by it.

Morgaine said...

"Yes, wars have been fought over male gods, but they have been fought over other things as well. "

Name one that can't be traced directly back to monotheist values. I can't think of one.

ursa said...

We are all good Goddess loving women, lets not police each other for a word here or there we disagree with, lets take the fight to the enemy, the enemy being women denigrating patriarchal religions.I love a Athanas blog its alive with enthusiasm, and every movement has a funda mentalist wing Nelson Mandela was a fundamentalist. British feminism remembers Emily Davidson who threw herself under a race horse to highlight her cause. Hitler gets raised to easily in general I see no desire for genicide here in fact we are far more likely to get shot than do the shooting. Remember the millions of women burned as witches many of them Goddess worshipers.

Grian said...

Ursa, indeed we are good Goddess loving women, but I feel my comments regarding the Hitler-esque views on this site are not unfounded. I never said Athana wanted genocide -in fact I made it quite apparent that I understood that she did not want such a thing. I am not presuming to think Athana wants millions of people murdered, only that some of her opinions regarding god-people are similar to how Hitler spoke of the Jews.

Listen, my biggest problem here is that I don't feel Goddess people are being presented in a good light. The Goddess wants peace, love, compassion - and all that good stuff. If she chooses to wipe people out on the way there, that is up to her - not to Athana and people who hold her views as truths. The world can not be changed by force - let me restate that. The world should not be changed by force unless Mother Nature herself steps in to take control.

Athana said...

Whoooo!!! Great discussion going here! I love it. Healthy debate is one thing that, in my opinion, has been sorely missing from the Goddess Movement. Differences of opinion getting expressed (as politely as possible), people open to those differing opinions.

In my opinion, this is how we strengthen ourselves.

Grian, I'm not Hitler, the high-gods are Hitler, and he they. You say no one should "change the world by force." Would you have left Hitler in power to finish off the Jewish race, homosexuals, Gypsies, and -- I know there were other groups he was riding after, but I can't remember who they were now.

If you had had the power to stop the forces that obliterated the last Goddess civilizations -- would you have pitched that power away?

Athana said...

BTW, thank you, thank you Morgaine and Ursa for your votes of confidence and your support.

Grian said...

Athana, you make a good point. It's a given that I would not have allowed Hitler to continue his mass slaughter. And, if I had the power, I would've sent the Patriarchy packing way back when. So, to my amend my remarks - the world should not be changed by force unless to serve the greater good. This puts us back to the beginning - trying to point the rest of the world in the direction of the Goddess. I believe it is for the greater good that the world know the Goddess, but I don’t think it is up to me to tell the world what to believe.

Agrophobic said...

Doh, you seem to have my comment out of context.

It was in reference to the Gregory Paul Study. Particularly how religious mainstream America is.

It was definately not meant in any way to cast aspersions on the mother or her followers (I am one of them).