Thursday, September 01, 2005

I Challenge You

A few days ago, Lisa left this comment:
“Lol, do you guys realize that you sound exactly like fundie fascist Christians with all this God the Father is Evil and should be obliterated …?”

Here’s the difference, Lisa:

Fundies wanna squash all other deities because their god Jehovah says to.

I wanna squash male deities because of RATIONAL evidence that male gods squash the world.

See the difference?

Jehovah says, “Pitch all other gods, because I am a jealous god.”

Science and history say, “Pitch male gods, because they’ve done a number on humankind.”

I’m calling for peaceful separation of my people from male gods in the same way Ghandi called for peaceful separation of his people from the British. The British were hurting Indians; male gods are hurting humans (see my May 14 post).

Lisa, I challenge you: Are you gonna let male gods threaten life on earth, or will you be Ghandi and stand in their way?

Now, you might think Morgaine and I are just two lonely souls wandering in the wilderness, here, and if that’s the case, go to my April 20 post and read Women’s Studies professor Ellie Amico on the relationship between female divinity, peace, prosperity, equality and non-violence. Or go to April 10 and read Lynn Keller, Director of the Women's Spirituality Ph.D. programs at the California Institute of Integral Studies on the same topic. Or June 9, author Riane Eisler, also on the same topic. Or May 4, anthropologist Marvin Harris on how the highest war casualties come from Christian countries. Or June 20, psychologist James Hillman, author of A Terrible Love of War, and his argument that male gods are the source of war. Or June 29, world-famous archaeologist Marija Gimbutas, who makes the case for the “Goddess is to peace as god is to war” equation. There are even more good posts back there somewhere; these are just a few I’ve pulled out for you.


Lisa said...

Fundies wanna squash all other deities because their god Jehovah says to.

I wanna squash male deities because of RATIONAL evidence that male gods squash the world.

See the difference?

Lol, that's actually why the Abrahamic faiths want to "squash" female deities. They view their god's displeasure as RATIONAL evidence.

And I absolutely know that you and Morgaine are NOT "lonely souls" out there. This is precisely why I never got involved in feminist organizations until this past year. The tactics and dogma are just Patriarchy In A Skirt trying to convince itself and others it isn't.... But it's still the same exact either/or, with us/against us, battle for good or evil Patriarchal fighting style, and you guys just prove that to me by your words and deeds every day.

I'm not saying that your way is wrong and I know better (because I wouldn't say that) but I am saying that I really can't see any difference between the Pat Robertsons and the Feminazi's.

We need both tactics, your Patriarchal guerilla tactics, and the more people friendly... You will change legislation, others will change people's hearts so they value that change and not merely resent it.

Morgaine said...

It is most decidedly NOT "patriarchy in a skirt" - I don't insist on no male gods at all, but I do insist that the universe is female. I can give an abundance of scientific evidence that tells me this.

The difference is that we don't want to enslave or exploit men; we don't want to enrich a few elites at the expense of the many. We are advocating a form of government that considers the good of all the people, and is based on cooperation. It's not dogma, it's philosophy. It is possible to create such societies because they have existed and still do in some places.

If you disagree, that's your right, but you are coming off as smug and superior, as if you have all the answers. No one has. But we have a good idea of the questions others are failing to ask, and no one is going to die from our ideas. Many, many people are dying for Christian doctrine.

I have studied the PC attitudes that we have to have fairness between the genders, and it is bullshit. It's a cop-out and it won't work. It has to be 53/47 to be in harmony with nature, and it's going to take a shift in consciousness in the way women are viewed to make any kind of change in our culture.

Lisa said...

Well from previous posts I thought you actually did state that you were about not having any male divinity at all, re: Goddess Holy War..? I'm so confused.

Why do you say I sound smug, etc, when each time I post I say that even though I don't agree with your tactics, I know they too are neccessary? When I said patriarchy in a skirt this time, I was referring to your method of delivery: scary, fear-inducing and mean, not which deities are worshipped. Sometimes I really feel that my posts are not being read entirely, like someone stops when they find one thing they disagree with and just assume to know the rest must be bullshit, and just repeat TV Newschannel-esque buzzwords.

Why would you fault the listener (who is sympathetic to your cause) because they are turned off by your delivery? If we are being scientific about it, statistically that's not very good PR... If you meant I sounded smug with that last section, well, come on, do you really think people will want to adopt your philosophies when you come across so angry and whatnot? Why do you think megachurches are doing so damned well?! Because everyone looks so happy and content and included!

Maybe because I came from old-school European Catholicism (instead of this crazy Americanized version) in which we were always told never to push that faith on others, but live in a way so that anyone wondering why we are so content and such will know it's because the faith gave us comfort. I'm definately not Catholic anymore, but doesn't that simple idea make sense? I'm sorry if I sound "superior" again, but I just don't see any of that here, is that my fault?? I mean, is there NOTHING positive about ANYTHING to EVER say? I'm not talking about being a ditsy Pollyanna, but really now...