Sunday, December 24, 2006


Anonymous is back again! This time she visited the Dec. 16th post, “Are You Serious?”:

ANONYMOUS: “What about the destroyer goddesses, the warrior goddesses? … Replacing one imbalance (male-dominated theology and world) with another (female dominated thealogy and world) will not fix anything. That is just swapping problems. Peace and Goddess Bless.”

ATHANA: Anon, poke around a little on this weblog. There’s no such thing as a warrior- or destroyer goddess. Athena, Neith, Bellona, Minerva, Anath, Indra and the other so-called war goddesses are merely mealy-mouthed makeovers of real goddesses.

Before 4000 BC, there was no war, so why would there be any war goddesses? But after 4000 BC (give or take a few centuries depending on where you are in the world), the Flies Guys take over.

The Flies Guys were the children of good people who went bad after starving long-term on the deserts that formed around 4000 BC. The Flies Guys invented the War Gods out of whole cloth. Originally these bogus gods were depicted as weapons -- spears and daggers and such.

The Flies Guys invented war, hierarchy, social violence, and War-God/Kings. And they made the peaceful, non-violent old goddesses into their own image – warrior-esses. Afterall, in these new psychotic War-God societies, everyone had to be on the same page – the war-&-violence page.

We’re not after female-dominated societies on this weblog. No indeedy! Far from it. Does a healthy mother let her girls dominate her boys? No. Her boys ride herd over her girls? No. And that’s what the old goddesses did for us. They loved us the way healthy mothers love their children. And they modeled that behavior so we’d treat each other that way, too.

Is there anything wrong with men being mother-men? No. Not on your life. Some of the most manly men in western history are mother men: Robin Hood, for example, Davy Crocket, Jimmy Stewart's George Bailey, and King Arthur, among others.

So tonight, let’s send out energy for the quick return of our old loving goddesses, the ones the War Gods drove underground and replaced with mealy-mouthed war “goddesses”.

Love, Athana

P.S. Happy Mother’s Night to all!


Morgaine said...

The patriarchy has certainly done a good job of making people fear matriarchy, haven't they? It is so frustrating to see young, bright Pagans who can't picture a society without dominiation without erasing gender completely. They can't understand that Mother rule is not power-over others, but empowerment of all. As much as I love science fiction and horror stories and movies, they've really solidified that hateful bitch-goddess stereotype. And I suppose it's hard to grasp a non-hierarchical, matrifocal society when you've never had one modeled for you. We really do have to find a way to break this spell.

Athana said...

Maybe we're just going to have to ease out of patriarchy backwards. I mean the way we came into it, only reversed. In other words, we might not be able to switch from pure patriarchy to pure matriarchy; we might have to go through a stage where warrior goddesses walk with us again. Hmm. Not my preference, but maybe that's how it'll have to be. Maybe. Maybe not. I'd like to hold out for the 'tipping point' and all that.

Gaia's Muse said...

Hi athana and morgaine-

Just found your site and I love it.

Maybe we're just going to have to ease out of patriarchy backwards. I mean the way we came into it, only reversed.

I think about this too, only it worries me. It could completely backfire. I worry that if men ever feared women even more than they do, they would destroy even greater numbers of us.

I am holding out for the "tipping point" as well, although I figure we're all going to get tipped into the drink and have to dry off a bit after we return to dry land. It might not be pretty, but at least we'll all be in it together.

Cheers for New Year's.

~Gaia's Muse~

Grian said...

I agree that we are not after female dominance. The Goddess does not want to create yet more separation. What I have a hard time with is the "there are no warrior goddesses" statement.

In my tradition the Goddess is revered as a three-fold deity. The Warrior is not one of those aspects because it is believed that the Warrior as well as the Lover are ever present throughout all other stages.

I don't think Warrior has to mean "war-mongering". It can mean destructive though. I think there is some balance lost when we forget that the Goddess is not only creating but also destroying. She is loving and also harsh - not out of animosity but out of necessity.

You can not know light without first knowing darkness and vice versa.

Just my two cents. I'd love to compare beliefs.

Athana said...

Grian, Hm. I agree with you that destruction, death and misfortune are all part of human life, and have been since the beginning. And I can’t tell you that I’ve figured out exactly how this fits in with Goddess. I think though that “bad stuff” comes in part from the Mother, who feels an overwhelming need to protect Her children. At the moment I’m reading the book Nisa, about a Kung Bushwoman in the Kalahari Desert, southern Africa. This is a hunting and gathering society – or was when Nisa was a child. Anyway, if a Kung woman has a baby too soon after her previous baby, she doesn’t have enough milk to feed both babies, and one is going to have to die. So the mother usually kills the newborn immediately after its birth. In a Goddess theaology, could we explain bad things as a result of a Mother trying to protect her children?
One problem I see with the warrior as a symbol of “bad stuff” is that war is an aberration that’s been with us humans for only the past 6000 years out of the 100,000 we’ve existed on this planet. I’m not sure we want to use it as a symbol in the healthy religion we want to have for our species.

Athana said...

Hey, Gaia’s Muse, welcome to Radical Goddess Thealogy! I hear ya about the fear. Here are some thoughts on that. If and when men see that the War Gods are hurting them (men) just as much as they’re hurting women, and that it’s not women who need to be feared but the War Gods, then I don’t think women will have a problem with men anymore.

My opinion currently is that the War Gods were started by Con Dudes who conned men into thinking they were better than women and that each man needed to serve as a jailer of at least one woman. Why? Because the Con Dudes knew they couldn’t start a War-God religion if women had any power, women are too possessive of their kids and would never go for a religion based on a War Machine that ate their children for lunch.

So the Con Dudes duped each man into serving as a jailer. Which is a lot of work! Then the Con Dudes duped men into also serving as warriors in their (The Con Dudes’) army, so that the Con Dudes could rip off their neighbors, and wallow in wealth. Do the warriors get any of that wealth? Hah! Hah! (Excuse for a minute, ha, ha, ha, ah ha, ha ha ha hardy har, har har har har …!!!!!!).

Grian said...


Perhaps I immediately equate the Warrior aspect with Darkness - as in the Dark aspects of the Goddess.

Yes, I do think that destruction can come from the desire to protect. I don't know if you have children, but the thought of someone causing harm to my daughter can make me contemplate violent actions.

I think the "darkness" - for lack of a better term - is not only necessary and natural, but can be a positive force if it is understood and integrated into self. This is a very common theme in many forms of spirituality - stemming directly from the earliest Shamanic Goddess societies.

sopka said...

I wonder about the original word war was and meant in these goddesses language sometime a convenient word is used instead of the original nuanced word. Kinda like witch for poisoner in the translation of the old testament. oh King james ordered that misprint. Sorry