Saturday, February 03, 2007

MALE GODS: Automatic WAR?

Do male gods automatically lead to war, hierarchy and dominance? Is there something about many men such that, when they get power, they do a hunter-group thing? I mean like they hafta have one guy bossing, and everybody else doing a “whatever thou sayest, o thou mighty one” type of thing? Or is it perhaps only men with an overshot of testosterone? Help me out on this!

20 comments:

dulcimergoddess said...

in the Neolithic, they also find figures (although far less frequently) of males, presumably deities. One would assume that they had gods as well as goddesses. in Mohenjo Daro and Harappa, the Indus valley cultures, they find figures of a Cernunnos/Shiva type. So I believe that the answer is "no."

Anne Johnson said...

I'm fairly sure my dad was laden with testosterone, because here I sit. He was gentle and kind, devoted to a disable wife who treated him like dirt ... and he loved his mom. I'm sure some gods are the same.

Aquila ka Hecate said...

I think it's probably when you get the male-god-supreme model that you get war, violence, aggression.

It seems as if the male gods under the Great-Goddess-supreme societal models were lovers/brothers/sons to Her-not inferior, but also not all-important as they became in the patriarchal model.

I'm really starting to believe that we aren't inherently violent and aggressive as a race, but that we've become sick unto death with a viral oppressor god meme.
Love,
Terri in Joburg, celebrating Lughnasadh

sopka said...

I think patriarchy, Alpha doggism is a taught function. Sports is used to introduce it to young men. Remembering my brother with his friends interacting and listening to my husband and his friends reminisce. There is no real hierarchy when they deal with each other as friends and co-horts.

pignut said...

What's your view on this:
http://planetfusion.co.uk/lionhead.html
?
(ignore the page heading, it's a glitch)

Looks pretty butch to me, and it has a mane, but some people insist it's a goddess.

I think a balance of male and female deities is important, but I have noticed patriarchy creeping into neo-paganism, under the guise of "balance".

Athana said...

Dulcimergoddess, I should have qualified. I wasn’t clear. I meant the gods that are the heads of pantheons, the ones that are supposed to be the creators of the universe.

Anne, jeez, what an awful thing to see your dad treated that way. So many of us have damaged mothers – who themselves were reared by damaged mothers and on and on it goes.

Terri, happy lughnasadh down there on the other side! And yes, I don’t think humans can be inherently violent, else we wouldn’t have any peaceful societies, and we still have several even now, even after years of the War Gods scouring the earth trying to turn us all into War Goddites. Plus there would be evidence of war in the long, long Neolithic in Europe, and there doesn’t seem to be.

Interesting, sopka. You’re right, of course. If men were naturally hierarchical, you’d find hierarchy in Eskimo and other hunting groups.

Pignut, this is the second time I’ve tried to find the sites you’ve mentioned, and I can’t do it! Any idea why?

Morgaine said...

I don't think it's natural, but learned. The most successful people in a patriarchy are those who lack empathy. That allows them to rape, steal, enslave, cheat and kill without feeling bad about it. Little boys are treated cruelly to train them out of their innate empathy for others, and they are rewarded for greed and aggression. We make these monsters - we can stop if we want.

Aquila ka Hecate said...

Morgaine-that comment hit home.

From a mother-thank you for that.
Love,
Terri in JOburg

Jon Thorrson said...

Its so amusing that radical feminists think they can co-opt the Goddess!! Like playing, "lets bend the facts to fit our premise",
"lets interpret the evidence in our favor", or "lets make the most amazing assumptions with no real knowledge, except our own prejudices" , you make the same mistakes that you claim the male archies do, from the other direction and somehow think that balances out? Argue all you want, society and culture move in the direction of evolution, and even if there were such a culture as you claim in the past, it has obviously been surplanted by one that is more succesful, and the few remnants left are marginalized just as they should be. They are just weird little groups clinging to survival, which is granted them by the prevailing culture which finds them amusing and insignificant. Obviously if this were not true then these war Gods you honor by acknowledging their great power to control the whole of human history would have rightfully obliterated them. Convert I say, let the true culture and enlightenment of the male paradigm free you from your hormonally controlled behavior and inferior female thought process.

God/Man said...

Thanx Jon, bout time someone stood up to these feminists!! They think that they can rewrite history to force everyone to accept their worldview. Bet they're afraid to debate you!! Probly just delete us!!!! All power to the Goddess, may she educate these man haters.

Aquila ka Hecate said...

That's funny, I don't see any man-haters around here.
All I see are people who realise that androcentric domination has got us to the brink of extermination, rather than this 'evolution' you claim.
The values of nonaggression and affiliation in humanity are traits we need to resurrect if we are to survive-this is what we believe.
And no, I don't think anyone is 'afraid to debate' anybody else.
I am a scientist and, not that it's important, a lover of men.
I just happen to believe that these folk-women and me- are onto something precious here.
Love,
Terri in Joburg

Aquila ka Hecate said...

Heehee- I inadvertently spelled 'men' as 'me' in that last post.
Must arise from some kind of subconscious hatred of males, eh?
Love,
Terri in Joburg
PS god/man the word is probably, not probly

God/Man said...

Akeela,
guess you never heard of slang, cant, or local idiom, Miz Scientist, and sure, many women are so indoctrinated in the man hating brand of feminism that they are too brainwashed by it to even realize they are following its principles.
God?man

God/Man said...

Ooops, hee hee, mispelled God/Man,
must be a subconscious desire to dominate women....
God&Man Supreme

Morgaine said...

Spring must be near - all the pathetic trolls are peeking out of their little hide-y holes!

Personally, I love men. They're my favorite form of art. Other than that, I'd like to point out the last best strategy of the patriarchist - the illusion of linear progress. Aren't we lucky that white males were so advanced that they raped, pillaged, plundered, stole, destroyed, enslaved and committed genocide to get us to where we are today? Gag me.

Anyone with even a little bit of education should be able to see that there's nothing advanced about us but our tools. Our politics are still simian, we still reward sociopathy over empathy and we shit where we eat.

Judeo-Christianity/Islam was a giant step backward for the civilization, and the sooner we get back to living in harmony with our Mother, the better. Her immune system is about to attack us like the virus we've become.

And boys, your forefathers created a "history" that's more fantasy than fact. We're putting together the pieces to find the truth.

Athana said...

Jon, my hairdresser says the same thing: “Might makes right.”

Jon Thorsson said...

Morgaine,
Spring is here and the hero’s attacked by the pitiful ho’s!! Personally, I love women. They're my favorite form of art, especially the ones who pose in Hustler. Other than that, I'd like to point out the last whimper of the feminist, the illusion they have logical thought. Aren't we lucky that white females are so advanced that they submitted to rape, pillaging, plundering, stealing, destroying, enslaving and committing genocide to get us to where we are today? You’ve gagged yourselves? (who was it made lampshades in Aushwitz of human skin?, oh yeah, a big fat ugly repressed woman)

Anyone with even a little bit of education should be able to see that you‘d be living in caves without me. Your politics are still juvenile, you still reward the abuser as you extol the wimp (which gets laid?) and you shit where?!!.

Judeo-Christianity/Islam was a giant step forward for civilization, and the sooner we get back to living in harmony with Man, the better. His immune system is impervious to your viral attack.

And girls, your mothers created a "herstory" that's more fantasy than fact. We're standing up for the truth.

Oh, and Athana, my barber says the truth in the man 'pudding'.

Athana said...

Oh, this is thrilling! The underbelly of the Beast has rolled over onto us on this blog! We can learn from Him, I know we can! Welcome, Son of Thor! All hail to the Mighty sky God Thor! All hail, all hail!

Son of Thor, why do you dislike feminists so much? Seeing as how your grandmother – mother of Thor – was the Great Earth Mother Goddess Fyorgyn, you’d think you’d be at home with strong women (?). What gives?

Sharon said...

Hi I'm Sharon and am new to this blog.
God/man I don't consider myself a man hater but what you are spewing is definitely a form of hatred. I am a feminist in that I believe in the political, social and economic equality of women.

Terri I agree the models were brothers/sons/lovers and equal to but not more important than the goddess.

Jon unfortunately you're right, patriarchies were more successful than matriarchies. The goddess gave more aggression biologically to men so they could protect and provide for women. Women were supposed to be leaders and teachers and providers of life. Men were supposed to support women. Unfortunately man took the biology to extremes and instead of being led by intellect thay allowed their biological aggressiveness to become dominant. Because man was physically stronger than woman in general and a heavily pregnant woman in particular the men overcame the women and took control. Men needed to feel powerful and were intimidated by a woman's ability to create life. If they couldn't have the ultimate power than they would take power over those who did. Only those who feel inadequate feel the need to dominate and control. We see it in our male society today. Those persons who feel adequate and empowered have no need to prove themselves. They can allow others to feel equal and empowered also. Crimes of aggression are mostly committed because the person needs the feel of control, to overcome their feelings of inadequacy. Rape being the most obvious of these. It was only after men took control that you see wide scale violence and the need to conquer and control and the atrocites that came about because of that. From that time men have written history and and it is decidedly one sided. Even the bible leaves out the parts they didn't like and tells of only the one side. They didn't want others to even consider the idea that man in general was not all powerful. Thus the attacks on women. If women could be made to believe they were less, then man had the ultimate power. Men have a much higher need to subjugate then women, and that need leads to all the things that any intelligent person abhors. and woman has never submitted to rape, pillage and plundering etc. No rational person would, submit to or commit these acts.
oh and as for living in caves, it is historical fact that women were responsible for the move into horticulture and the raising of domestic livestock. and these were the things that allowed the evolution of culture and unfortunately violence. As for christianity being a step forward, it was after the advent of christianity that most of the great cultures fell and man moved into the dark ages. Much of what we know was known and lost and was only reaquired after christianity began to lose its grip on society. Science still flourished in the heathen lands to the east. Anyone with a little bit of an education knows these things. You show your ignorance with everything you write.

Anonymous said...

Oops sorry the address should be:
http://www.planetfusion.co.uk/~pignut/lionhead.html

My main page is at http://www.planetfusion.co.uk/~pignut

-Pignut

I thought Thor was the enemy of the trolls :-)