Amanata left this comment on an earlier Post: "Actually, I believe part of why we are in 'this mess' is because women DON'T hit back when they should. And I believe slugging them back in the face IS a teaching lesson at a very gut level.Wow. Amanata. I guess I didn’t expect this kind of response from anyone. Thanks for being very honest. It sounds as if you’re living in an environment with quite a bit of violence in it. Below is a list of my responses. They’re not very organized. They show my dis-ease with this issue, and my indecision.
"I've been in too many situations which were brutally violent to swallow some fairy tale that if I'd just explained everything to the violent abusive men in just the right way, they would have suddenly said 'OMG you are right!' and apologized and done what they could to make up for the crimes they had committed."
1. Hitting back brings us down to their level. It lumps you in with the bad guys. How am I supposed to tell that you’re a “good guy” if you look just like the bad guys? When I find a way to sweep away all the bad guys, you’ll have to go along with all the rest!
2. I believe that institutionalized warfare comes from, or is strongly related to, interpersonal violence on the micro-level.
3. Do you want to live in a world that has more hitting in it than it does even now? Policemen who hit you when they stop you for speeding? If you can do it, so should everyone else be allowed to do it back to you….
4. There are many ways to “teach.” I don’t think any of them have to involve violence.
5. There are many kinds of “bad” things that happen to people, and different kinds will need different kinds of teaching to resolve.
6. BUT – In some ways I’m on your “side” here. Here’s how: I think the last “good guys” disappeared from the earth around 1500 BC. Why? Because they didn’t learn how to defend themselves against the bad guys. So now we don’t have any good guys as role models. How are we supposed to learn to be good guys when the good guys let themselves all be killed by the bad guys?
This line of thinking makes me think our only hope is to pass an international law that ya hafta take a parent-fitness test before you can have a baby. And, no one can have more than two babies. RESULTS: Our world population gets smaller -- and healthier.
I can already hear the thunderous Boo-ing from the peanut gallery.
But Amanata, bottom line: I urge you to go to a help organization in your town for help with any violence that's going on in your life. There's someone out there who can lend a hand with whatever you're going through.
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thnx to EdwinP for the foto
Hey, Athana -
ReplyDeleteI'm on the fence here. I've always said that being a Pagan means that if someone smites me on the cheek, I'll knock the shit out of them. And I know that before you can teach someone hitting is wrong, you have to get them to stop hitting you.
I want to live in a completely peaceful world, but that won't happen until power is wrested away from those who now have it. We may have to proceed imperfectly if we are to begin at all.
There has always been a tradition of women warriors, too. The difference is that they defend the innocent, rather than preying upon them. Mothers will always defend their child with ferocity. We have to own that part of our womanhood, too.
Think about how this concept is still with us from Paganism today - Robin Hood, leader of a coven of thieves and outcasts that steal from the rich to give to the poor, following a Priestess named Marion. The strong defending the weak in a time of great oppression. The same form of oppression we face now.
If you want to get someone's attention and respect, you might have to hit them where they live.
What do you think?
$0.02:
ReplyDeleteI know there are a lot of good points to be made on all sides of the issue. But my tendency is to get caught up in the pragmatic aspects and forget to tend my own garden. So let's make sure that, whatever way we think about this, it comes out of a gracious compassionate spirit and a committment to goodness. Revenge can really shrivel a heart. =\
On a completely sentimental note, thanks for all the discussions we've had. I like you folks =)
Hi,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your response. I don't really agree with a lot of what you said, but you are respectful about it and I guess we just have to disagree on this one...
Maybe I'm just too jaded and bitter by this time. But I have extricated myself from life threatening situations by using violence and it worked - I'm alive - so I'm not willing to say that total non-violence is the answer every time and for everyone. I do follow a warrior goddess path so perhaps that is the difference in philosophy here. But I have to ask - when you talk about "sweeping away" all the bad guys, by whom it would appear you mean anyone who is violent - how do you intend to do that? Would that not, in itself, be an act of violence?
I would like a world that was non-violent, but I no longer believe it is possible, and in the absence of beliving that is possible, the next best thing I can come up with is a strong willingness to defend myself by any means necessary. I don't want to be a martyr for anyone's cause.