If you've visited over the past few weeks, you may have already read parts of this post. It's an entry in the God or Not Carnival.
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On your comfy couch, lights low, you sit quietly in a corner reading the christian bible. All is peace and love, right?
Not. Many of us have been brainwashed at young and defenseless ages into viewing this deadly book as peaches and cream. Nothing could be further from the truth.
To break through the brainwashing, try imagining your children memorizing verses in which Jehovah kills, murders and maims. Or hoots and howls with delight at someone’s bad luck. Or check out how the bible’s used in particular contexts as a lethal weapon. It’s then that the horror dawns. In my January 7 post, for example, “More Verses for the Kids to Memorize,” christian Fred Phelps throws biblical verses around like deadly, poison-tipped darts:
We humbly thank Mr. Fred Phelps for the verses below (Mr. Phelps uses them to prove that “god is laughing, mocking and deriding hypocritical, fag-infested West Virginia”):Not long ago, in a time not unlike our own, war-god followers used biblical verses to hunt down and exterminate innocent women and men. Then as today, the christian church was terrified of losing its fear-based power. Below is a passage from an Inquisition-torture case. As we hover on the brink of annointing a new Supreme Court Justice, a man nominated by a scriptural-literalist, and a man many think sees women as less than fully human, I think the passage is appallingly appropriate:1) “The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the lord scoffs at them. Then he rebukes them in his anger and terrifies them in his wrath.” Psalms 2:4-5Mr. Phelps suggests that West Virginians should “Thank god for 12 dead miners,” since these men are signs that the lordgod is spitting mad at them (WVs) for allowing gays, lesbians, bisexuals and the transgendered over the West Virginia state line, and reminders that if WV would just chuck all those GLBTs, no miner ever again would have to die.
(2) "I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. " Prov. 1:26-27.
(3) "The lord shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me." Deut. 28:20.
Daily Lesson: Don’t forget kids, the Bible’s lordgod laughs like mad when you get a boo-boo, take sick, and/or die.
"Judge: Do you confess that you made love potions and let the young men from Csongrad [sic] drink of it so that they all became enamored of you?Although I’m pained at including the above, I think it’s vital we routinely revisit the behavior warrior gods dig out of good men. Men aren’t bad; it’s just that the gods driving them are sick.
"Erzebet: No. I know nothing of such a drink.
"JUDGE: Do you confess that sitting on a wand you flew up and became a bird?
"Erzebet: No, I don’t.
"JUDGE: Do you confess that you spat upon the wheatfields and thereby caused a great drought?
"Erzebet: No.
"JUDGE: Do you confess that you gave birth to twins and then buried them alive?
"Erzebet: It is true that I gave birth to twins, your Honor, but they were dead. I had to bury them, otherwise I would be suckling them, since my milk is oozing after them.
"JUDGE: You had better admit to the rest of the charges or you will be tortured.
"Erzebet: I cannot, your Honor, because I have not done these things.
"Erzebet was then given over to be tortured. The sadist men could do anything to her that they wished. The priests were eating lunch and dinner while the poor woman screamed from pain. The torturers poured hot water into Erzsebet’s mouth through a sieve, and she finally confessed to everything. At that point she was sentenced to death.
"Erzebet had to dig her own grave. Then she was put in a casket that had the head-end sawed completely off. When they placed her in the casket, her face was looking through the hole into the ground, and the rest of her was buried alive. Then the men poked at Erzebet’s face with hot irons until she felt no more. At last, they chopped up her skull so that she could not rise by night to hunt them. All in the name of Jesus.’” Pp 184-85 in Zsusanna Budapest’s Holy Book of Women’s Mysteries, “From Mother’s Book of Sorrows,” 1980.
Moderate christians say it doesn’t matter that the bible harbors verses like the above. This is a lie. It matters. These verses direct the real behavior of real people. Forget that often these real people are mentally deranged (Phelps, Robertson, Hitler, etc., etc.). Time and again the mentally deranged have blitzed the human race without mercy.
I have to laugh. I actually agree with the Rapture Right on one issue: the bible is the christian holy book, and you can’t cherry-pick it. Furthermore, it’s chock full of verses so brutal they wouldn’t even pass muster in the worst dictatorships on the planet. And we wonder why the world’s a mess. Duh-uh!
The Bible, Koran, Torah and Bhagvad-Gita are as dangerous as WMD. As loving parents with children captured by cults, we need to help Christians, Muslims, Jews and Hindus see their desperate need for de-programming. This however must be done unilaterally, since to deprogram Christians only, for example, leaves the former Christian nations open to Muslim nations brainwashed to do anything – even suicide -- to spread themselves across the planet.
Finally, in my January 2 blog, I listed verses hailing Jehovah’s love of war, his urging of war, his training of men for war, his threatening of war, and his delight in war for war’s sake. I include only a few of many:
Bible Verses for the Kids to MemorizeIn conclusion, if you’re hungry for the non-material world, don’t fall into the deadly trap of the war gods (Jehovah, Yahweh, Allah, Vishnu). Their’s is a humorless, joyless and sensually bizarre world. Sample something genuinely wholesome and loving: the world of the Goddess, the Mother of us all. Not only are the warrior gods as counterfeit as two-dollar bills -- they’ve also driven us to the brink of extinction. It’s time we passed laws across the planet banning them.
“For it was the Lord Himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel, so that He might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy….” Joshua 11:20.
“So [Jehovah] poured out on them His burning anger, the violence of war. …” Isaiah 42:25.
“That is why the Book of the Wars of the Lord says….” Numbers 21:14.
“You [Jehovah] are my war club, my weapon for battle — with You I shatter nations, with You I destroy kingdoms…” Jeremiah 51:20.
“Praise be to the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war….” Psalm 144:1. This is one of my faves.
“ ‘…The Lord will be at war against the Amalekites from generation to generation.’" Exodus 17:16
“He (Jehovah) did this only to teach warfare to the descendants of the Israelites …” Judges 3:1-2.
“And [Jehovah] sent you on a mission, saying, 'Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.'” Samuel 15:18
“I [Jehovah] will set fire to the walls of Rabbah that will consume her fortresses amid war cries on the day of battle….” Amos 1:14.
“Listen, an uproar among the kingdoms, like nations massing together! The Lord Almighty is mustering an army for war…” Isaiah 13:4. (Oh, Praise Be! We Lord warriors will have work again! Farewell to the foodstamp lines!)
P.S. Even if you’re not hungry for the divine, Love to all of you anyway.
Athana
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thnx to pepel for the foto of the children about to be swallowed up by the church
Now you know why I don't have time for a coffee break.
ReplyDelete--"Mr. Applegate"
Mr. Applegate, it is appalling the work load they have you laboring under. Have you filed a case with your union yet?
ReplyDeleteBrava, Sister! I didn't write an entry for God or Not this time around because I was busy with the Alito hearings. I'm so please to see you represent our Mother so splendidly!
ReplyDeleteYa know, after your post "Are Trees Conscious," I figured we had a lot more in common than I originally thought - or at least, I had little to quarrel about with you.
ReplyDeleteThis post is reversing that reversal, however. You're wandering into full-on fascist territory, seemingly without even knowing it.
The Bible, Koran, Torah and Bhagvad-Gita are each as dangerous as WMD and should be banned immediately and unilaterally.
You just advocated book burning. You want to restrict the flow of information, meaning and thoughts - and in the final analysis, this can only be done through the barrel of a gun.
Forget that often these real people are mentally deranged (Phelps, Robertson, Hitler, etc., etc.).
Calling people "mentally deranged" is the first step in dehumanizing them, and thus the first step towards a final solution designed to get rid of them. I'm not saying you actually believe these people should be killed, but your rhetoric is always the first stop of the Gestapo.
LOL, Mike, I thought I was doing you a favor by calling Phelps and Robertson mentally ill.
ReplyDeleteHave you read Phelps? Here's a recent quote: ”Thank God for the lightning bolt that caused the explosion that trapped the Sago miners. God killed them and cast them into Hell. WBC will picket their funerals, warning sodomite America that West Virginia symbolizes this Hell-bound nation, and worse and more of it is on the way from God.”
If Phelps and Robertson are sane, then we have sane men calling for the assassination of a president of a sovereign nation (Chavez; Robertson); sane men announcing that god struck down a prime minister because god didn’t like his behavior (Sharon; Robertson); and a sane man gloating and gleeful because twelve miners were buried alive in a WV mine (Phelps).
That would be pretty scary -- and proof that your religion is mentally deranged.
Re: banning the four books. Isn’t it fascinating that when the shoe’s on the other foot, suddenly you cry foul? You burned the holy books of *my* ancestors. As a matter of fact, you also burned my ancestors -- to death. While they were still alive.
I won’t say you should die the way my ancestors died, Mike. My religion is vastly more human than yours. But something needs to be done about you, because you’re killing the planet, and you’re killing its people.
But you’re right about my use of the word “banned.” I used the word in the sense that one talks about international and unilateral treaties “banning” nuclear weapons. I can see, however, the problems re: using it with books and religions. I might have to reword my post.
On the other hand, is yours a religion -- or a cult? Are cults that hurt and kill people protected by the Constitution? And is speech protected when it incites people to kill and torture?
I'm not actually a Christian. Or more accurately, I'm so far from orthodoxy that few Christians would accept me as one of their own. I'm closer to being an atheist than a mainstream Christian.
ReplyDeleteWhen discussing the "sanity" of other people, there are two things that need to be remembered.
First, calling someone "insane" sets them up as the classic Other. They are not a part of our group and we do not identify with them. The minute you set someone up as an Other, you've set one foot down the road to extermination. Time and time again in human history this has held true.
Secondly, the words sane and insane have been so stretched and overused in our culture that they no longer have a useful meaning. "Insane person," in popular usage, means nothing other than "person I do not understand." So if you want to call Robertson insane, you have to explain exactly what you mean by this. Such an explanation may go some distance to reducing his status as Other, or it increase it.
Re: banning the four books. Isn’t it fascinating that when the shoe’s on the other foot, suddenly you cry foul?
I'm not quite sure I understand the intent of your comments. Group A burned the books of Group B in the past, so Group B is justified in burning the books of Group A in the past?
But something needs to be done about you, because you’re killing the planet, and you’re killing its people.
And here it is. You're ready to throw a punch or pick up arms. Which, on a certain level, is fine. I'm not quarreling with this. I'm just baffled that you don't see the fascist tendencies that underlie your political statements.
I used the word in the sense that one talks about international and unilateral treaties “banning” nuclear weapons.
I don't understand the distinction. Could you clarify it for me?
And is speech protected when it incites people to kill and torture?
No it isn't. But incites is not a simple word. I think you'll find that most people and most judges think that if the speakers intent is not to cause violence and if the audience does not feel encouraged to act violently, than no "incitement" has occured. So in church on Sunday morning, no matter which Bible verses are read, you will never be able to argue "incitement."
You have a point, Mike. I think Robertson probably has an age-related dementia, and Phelps a psychosis. I think Falwell, Dobson et al. are perfectly sane.
ReplyDelete“Group A burned the books of Group B in the past, so Group B is justified in burning the books of Group A in the past?” No; and I didn’t say they did.
What makes you think I’m advocating violence, Mike? Although that may be in your head, it's not in mine.
I don’t understand your meaning, re: what I said about “banning.”
Finally, applying your test re: intent and felt audience encouragement, the evidence is incontrovertible that the warrior gods do, indeed, incite people to kill and torture: Phelps et al. & Matthew Shepherd et al. Joe Kony in Uganda and his killer kids (see my recent post on him). A teen homosexual suicide rate that’s through the roof. Jim Jones. Women dead due to outlawed abortions. Unwanted children leading tortured lives. The Witch Trials, 1200s to 1700s. The Inqusition 1200s to 1700s. Suicides for Allah. And I won’t even go into 6000 years of constant warfare.
No; and I didn’t say they did.
ReplyDeleteThen could you explain the paragraph that begins Re: banning the four books" a bit more? I thought you were attempting to either rebut my statement that you want to restrict speech, or explain why the restriction of certain types of speech isn't such a bad idea after all.
What makes you think I’m advocating violence, Mike? Although that may be in your head, it's not in mine.
I don't think violence is in your head. But it's pretty clear that you want people to behave in a very specific way, and the only way to achieve this level of control is through a constant state of violence. The violence isn't in your head, but it is sure lurking in your ideas and statements.
Finally, applying your test re: intent and felt audience encouragement, the evidence is incontrovertible that the warrior gods do, indeed, incite people to kill and torture
Well... no, it's not. Sure, the correlation between mainstream religious beliefs and violence is incontrovertible. The claim that mainstream religious belief causes violence is, in principle, impossible to prove empircally. You'll never be able to establish the exact factors behind a particular act of violence; life isn't that easy.
Another point: mainstream religious belief is also easily correlated with acts of kindness and love.
So the religious beliefs you decry are correlated with both hate and love. To claim that the hate aspect is causal and the love aspect is coincidental is pure sophistry.
If I may weigh in here:
ReplyDeleteMike:
No it isn't. But incites is not a simple word. I think you'll find that most people and most judges think that if the speakers intent is not to cause violence and if the audience does not feel encouraged to act violently, than no "incitement" has occured.
This is a valid point. It has been ruled on in courts, that free speech indeed has it's limitations.
One cannot cry 'fire' in a crowded theater, or incite to riot.
Athana:
Re: banning the four books. Isn’t it fascinating that when the shoe’s on the other foot, suddenly you cry foul? You burned the holy books of *my* ancestors. As a matter of fact, you also burned my ancestors -- to death. While they were still alive.
While I myself have a chip on my shoulder (hell, it's an entire log, truth be told)in re: the bibble, if we were to begin banning books, we may as well repeal the 1st amendment. Or simply amend it to exclude religion altogether (& that, I think, would be a 2-edged sword best left unwielded).
1 of my favorite founders, Thomas Paine said it best:
"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself - Thomas Paine, Dissertation on First Principles of Government, December 23, 1791"
Whether we are atheist, xtian, or goddess-worshipper, we must needs take care: else we become that which we despise.
Mike, this set of arguments is getting tortuous, and I don't even think we're listening to each other well (I include myself in this). Here's the thread of only one argument -- the one on book banning:
ReplyDeleteATHANA:
Not only are the warrior gods as counterfeit as two-dollar bills -- they’ve also driven us to the brink of extinction. It’s time we passed laws across the planet banning them.
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MIKE
The Bible, Koran, Torah and Bhagvad-Gita are each as dangerous as WMD and should be banned immediately and unilaterally.
You just advocated book burning.
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ATHANA But you’re right about my use of the word “banned.” I used the word in the sense that one talks about international and unilateral treaties “banning” nuclear weapons. I can see, however, the problems re: using it with books and religions. I might have to reword my post.
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[So I took out the book-banning part, but forgot and left in the part about passing laws to ban the warrior gods – by mistake]
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MIKE Re: banning the four books. Isn’t it fascinating that when the shoe’s on the other foot, suddenly you cry foul?
I'm not quite sure I understand the intent of your comments. Group A burned the books of Group B in the past, so Group B is justified in burning the books of Group A in the past? [i.e., christians burned pagan “books,” so now it’s okay for non-christians to burn the bible]
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ATHANA
“Group A burned the books of Group B in the past, so Group B is justified in burning the books of Group A in the past?” No; and I didn’t say they did.
[Meant: didn’t ever say anything about burning the bible, only banning it – which I later retracted]
MIKE
“No; and I didn’t say they did.”
Then could you explain the paragraph that begins Re: banning the four books" a bit more? I thought you were attempting to either rebut my statement that you want to restrict speech, or explain why the restriction of certain types of speech isn't such a bad idea after all.
ATHANA
What paragraph? I removed it, a la our previous conversation.
I WOULD like to see the four books banned, across the globe, but, as I stated earlier, I’d like more to preserve our freedom of speech. I explained this earlier. Also, there are many ways to ban books without burning them. And I stand by my earlier statement: you THOUGHT I was talking about burning the bible (which I was not), and got extremely exercised. Obviously, in your mind, it’s okay to burn *my* books, but not yours. You (christians) have never apologized for burning my ANCESTORS to death, let alone their books!